並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-81-%E4%BA%A4%E6%98%93%E6%89%80%E6%8A%95%E5%85%A5%E6%8C%96%E7%A4%A6%E7%9A%84%E5%95%86%E6%A5%AD%E4%BD%88%E5%B1%80-ft-%E5%B9%A3%E5%AE%89%E7%A4%A6%E6%B1%A0%E8%B2%A0%E8%B2%AC%E4%BA%BA-lisa/id1441274280?i=1000491376922